John Mccarthy: The Post-Modern Patriot

Chris Albert 00:00:01 (link to this point)

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This is Chris Albert, and I'm here to remind you of one thing. Someday, you're going to die. Now that's not some morbid statement or scary idea. It's solid fact. Your time here on this earth is limited.

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What's going on, guys? Welcome to Warrior Soul podcast. And today, I'm super psyched because I just had an amazing conversation with my new friend, John Mccarthy from Postmodern Patriot. John's had this podcast for a while, and it's been about a year, he said. But I found him, I think, back actually when he first started.

And what he's doing is he's addressing our latest tendency in society to avoid groups. And one of his arguments is that, you know, groups make us better, being part of groups, being part of a church, part of a community, part of a group like the Marine Corps, part of a club, part of people who are trying to make you better, trying to to push you to be better. We align on a whole lot philosophically. We both have similar backgrounds, similar educations as far as what we've studied, what we've read, and we've got very similar philosophies on life. I really like what this guy's about.

Served in the Marine Corps as an officer, and he is a strategic consultant now. So, you know, you guys are gonna get a lot out of this conversation. I highly suggest afterward that you check out his show, but that's about all I got. We'll we'll get all the links up to John's show on the show notes, and let's get into the conversation. John Mccarthy, welcome to Warrior Soul podcast.

John Mccarthy 00:04:10 (link to this point)

What's going on, Chris? Thanks for having me on the show. I'm very excited to be here.

Chris Albert 00:04:14 (link to this point)

I appreciate you coming on, man. You know, I I think I first heard of you and your podcast about two, two and a half years ago. I I may might've been last year. How long have you been around?

John Mccarthy 00:04:27 (link to this point)

About a year now. Yeah. Celebrated celebrated a year mark last June.

Chris Albert 00:04:32 (link to this point)

Okay.

John Mccarthy 00:04:33 (link to this point)

So Yeah.

Chris Albert 00:04:33 (link to this point)

So a month ago. I remember finding you on Instagram and I remember going to your website and and and and it was a while ago. Just kinda check. What's this guy about? I see this this postmodern patriot thing going on here.

I And wanna get into that, but but tell us a little bit about who you are, where you're coming from, and and what you're doing now.

John Mccarthy 00:04:54 (link to this point)

Absolutely. That's actually really wild too because the algorithm must have seen that you and I have similar interests or something like that and did a good job because you had popped up for me too. And I was like, wow. This guy's on the same wavelength that I am. This is like, you know, I'm not you don't always find the the veteran who's into social theory.

You know? That's not something that, like, pops up a whole lot. There are a whole lot of us. So yeah. So I'm a father.

I'm a son, husband, and I am a former marine infantry officer. And now I work in digital strategy for one of the biggest consulting firms in the country. And I I say mostly those things because that's what colors my view of the world and the consideration that I have for what's going on around me. I studied social theory undergrad in college. And then at the end of my time in the marine corps, I was fortunate enough to be sent to the Pentagon to do, kind of a desk gig for a little bit on my way out.

And when I did, I capitalized on the extra time that I had, and I got my MBA at George Washington University, which is how I kinda parlayed my way into a gig. But I started the podcast, the Postmodern Patriot podcast, because I think like you, I saw a bit of a gap in the way the world was treating veterans, not to a point where they are victims or they're not being treated well enough, but because there's kind of people not meeting on the same wavelength. And then also, I found that I had a sense of purpose, values, belonging in the military that did doesn't seem to exist for the civilian world in a lot of different re regards. And so I wanted to share that message with all those people.

Chris Albert 00:06:33 (link to this point)

That's awesome. That's awesome. And, you know, when when we're talking about postmodern patriot, we're talking about social theory. What kind of stoked your interest in that?

John Mccarthy 00:06:46 (link to this point)

Yeah. So when I was in college, it's actually crazy. The same person that stoked my interest in social theory stoked my interest in going into the marine corps on pretty much the same day. I was a broadcast journalism major. So in high school, I had my own TV show.

It was on the public access channel. I was a sports commentator, and I had always had the belief that I would eventually end up being on TV as a sports commentator or the goal. That's what's something that I had wanted to do. And then I got to college, and I decided while I was at Quinnipiac University who had this awesome broadcast journalism program that I was not interested in broadcast journalism anymore because I was studying it for a little while, and I was like, wow. This stuff is pretty boring.

You know what I mean? So one day, this professor in I was taking a random one off social theory elective. It was a sociology course. This professor, she's actually an accomplished author now in fiction books. Her name is Suzanne Palmieri.

She comes in and she gives this lecture that everybody kinda knows about and people talk about. But if you haven't been there, you don't understand. But to save you the the heartache of going through the exact lecture, the premise was that she came into the room and she said, you know, I just wanna find out why all of you stopped following your dreams. And and then she started asking people questions about why they are in the current role that they're in. And she was kinda really wild.

She I thought she, like, planted this girl in the class, but I've got a good relationship with her. So I've spoken to her since, and she hasn't really she told me she didn't plant this girl, that it was actually what happened. She picked a random girl out of the class, and she said, what did you wanna be when you grew up? And the girl said, well, I wanted to be a writer. I wanted to be somebody who wrote fiction.

You know? And she said, oh, well, when did your dream change? And the girl responded. She said, well, it didn't change. You know?

I'm I'm majoring in business administration here, and that's what I wanna do. And she goes, is that what you wanna do? Or, you know, what happened there? She said, well, writers don't make any money. And then Suzanne Palmieri looks at her and she goes, well, JK Rowling is one of the richest women in England, isn't she?

And and the girl she was talking to kinda just is dumbfounded. She goes, well, yeah, but that's JK Rowling. And Suzanne Palmieri looks at her and goes, well, how do you know you couldn't have reached JK Rowling's height if you didn't at least try? And then some young man in the audience, he raised his hand, and we were we were talking. She was getting ready to draw out the theory of social deviance.

Some young man raised his hand. He said, actually, I did follow my dream. I joined the navy. And she said, we have a deviant, ladies and gentlemen. This man deviated from the path that society set out for them.

And then I was kinda, like, flabbergasted because in that moment, I realized that my entire life, I'd wanted to go into the marine corps, and I had let a lot of people talk me out of it, and that I did not follow the dream that I wanted to set out and and get after. And I actually went back to my dorm room that day and called the marine recruiter because on the screen on the television set was the the invasion of Marjah. And the marines had taken mass casualties there, and they had done a lot of serious fighting. And so I called the Marine recruiter because I took that as a sign from God that, you know, it was time to nut up and get into the Marine Corps.

Chris Albert 00:10:11 (link to this point)

It's interesting, man. God, like so that that lecture you went through, that's something I've thought about a whole lot because, you know, people, they follow these scripts. Right? It's it's and what she says is that that script that people you can either deviate from it or you stick by it.

And, you know, eventually you find yourself, you're 33, 34, 35 years old. You got bills to pay. You've got a mortgage. You've got all these things. And you're kind of painted yourself into a corner where you're not going to be able to follow those dreams.

You're not going be able to go after what you want. You're too old to join the Marine Corps. You're you're you're you're you're tool to do this. You're too old to do that. Or, or apparently that's what society tells you.

I kinda had a a crazy experience, when I was doing this because when I got out, as I was telling you before we hit record, I was working on a PhD. And I never asked myself why I was working on the PhD. Right? I I I knew I liked what I was studying. But as far as being a professor and things like that, I'd never, like, kinda went through that in my head.

And and to be honest with you, I I wanted to be in fitness. I wanted to to to, you know, do bodybuilding. I wanted to to own a gym. And, you know, I went to Greece, and I was at Delphi. Right?

Like, surreal experience at Delphi, like, where the Oracle used to be. Yeah. And I was sitting there, and I was thinking about my life. And, like, this voice came up in my head, and it was like, you're not gonna be here forever. Right?

Look around you. All these people who used to come here, they're all dead. All we got is rocks. There's only rocks around here. You don't know their stories.

You don't know their names. You don't know shit about them. And they had the same worries as you do, the same bills as you do, even though it was thousands of years ago. And, you know, you you gotta go after what you want while you can. And and I came back.

I I I left the PhD program, and then I went to Long Beach and opened up a gym. But that was that's a crazy, crazy situation that I don't think a lot of people think about, man. They they go through their lives without ever asking themselves that question.

John Mccarthy 00:12:26 (link to this point)

And I think the I think the unfortunate thing, and we see this is manifesting in society today. Right? This is especially with the youngest generation. Right? The Gen Zers, they're they're at the highest degree of they're on they're taking more prescription antianxiety or antidepressant medication that they've ever taken.

Now you could probably offset some of that statistic for the fact that some of these doctors are getting a little prescription happy. Right? And so that doesn't you know, causation correlation does not infer causation in that regard. But there's something to be said about the fact that we see a lot of people mean, the even the term a quarter life crisis. Right?

There's this new term of a quarter life crisis. This didn't exist until, you know, the past few years. So people are struggling with some level of anxiety nowadays or some level of depression. I mean, even people talk about in pop culture, we have this thing, the Sunday scaries. Right?

Like, people on Sundays are are petrified of the week to come. Right?

Chris Albert 00:13:28 (link to this point)

Yeah.

John Mccarthy 00:13:29 (link to this point)

And and I don't blame these people. I'm not talking trash about them or or thinking, you know, I'm not gonna be the person who's like, and they're soft, and we need to harden society. I'm just saying, like, there's clearly a problem that exists with this, and it's such a problem that even guys like you and I, we, who are probably very in touch with ourselves, understand these things, have make it so far down the path and then realize like, oh my god, this is not the path for me, and we have to completely redirect.

Chris Albert 00:13:57 (link to this point)

Oh yeah, dude. I mean, like, and just getting back to that PhD thing, what it came to, I was like, the reason why I was going for the PhD was because my uncle Cosmo asked me to. Right. Well, Cosmo from East Orange, New Jersey, said, Hey, you gotta go for your PhD. We need another doctor in the family. And that's the whole reason why I spent freaking almost six years of my life going after this thing that I didn't really want. Like insane. Right?

John Mccarthy 00:14:24 (link to this point)

Exact and that's the exact reason that my that I ended up at college. Now, I mean, it was a blessing that I was at college. I got a college degree, and I was thankful for that. I was able to go into the marine corps as an officer. But, you know, I when I was 13 years old, I said I'm going in the marine corps.

The marines came marching down in the Saint Patty's Day parade in Belmar, New Jersey. And I looked at my father. I said, who who are those guys? And he said, they're the marines. And they had a big banner that said jarheads on it.

And I said, do they call them jarheads? And my father was a big meathead from, from North Jersey. So he said, because if you keep, like, hitting them in their head, it's like punching an empty jar. It doesn't have any effect. Yeah.

And I and I just believed them. And I was like, well, those guys look good and blah blah blah. And I started reading about them and I loved everything about it. And then when I was 18 years old, I was ready to join. I wanted to go into the Marine Corps.

My mother and father talked me out of it. And not in the sense that they talked me out of it because they didn't want me to follow my dreams or anything, but my dad made a deal with me. He said, if you go to college and you don't like it, you can go into the marines, but I want you to go to college. And he knew what he was doing. What what 18 year old kid isn't gonna get to college and absolutely love that lifestyle.

Right?

Chris Albert 00:15:34 (link to this point)

Yeah.

John Mccarthy 00:15:35 (link to this point)

And and so I I went, and then I realized, you know, I I gained 40 pounds later, and I was completely out of shape and not doing anything with my life and missing that call to be one who serves others. I didn't realize that I had that call. I think that some of us have that call to serve others and that it's just something that we can't ignore.

Chris Albert 00:15:59 (link to this point)

Yeah. And I mean, like, if you think about that age period, because your your cerebral cortex hasn't even formed yet. Right?

John Mccarthy 00:16:06 (link to this point)

Yeah.

Chris Albert 00:16:06 (link to this point)

And you you're making a decision basically to take out a giant mortgage. Right? If you're taking student loans on. And then, you know, your the rest of your life is gonna be determined by the decisions you make in those four years, which by the way, you're probably not gonna make very good decisions as far as like a lot of different things. I mean, I know a lot of kids, I mean, who who who grinded through college because I got to when I was at UCSB, taught a lot of college students.

Right? So I watched these kids. They're taking Adderall. They're they're doing everything they can to study, but then they're partying as much as possible on on, you know, on the outside. And then everything's about trying to get to law school or trying to get into to medical school or things like that.

If they don't do that, their lives ruined and and all these different things, and they're taking on all these this debt all while, like, living in a bubble and not getting the the human experiences that they need to actually function in society. And that's the crazy thing. And and, you know, I think I I thank God for my time in the Marine Corps because that gave me the actual human experience I needed to function. If I didn't have that, I I don't know where the fuck I would be, honestly. I agree with know?

It's it's it's pretty fucking crazy. And I think, like, one of the things I try to convey here to the audience is that we we rather than seeing us as having a handicap in the veteran community, I think we have a massive advantage. I think we we we've seen things that other people haven't seen. We know things that other people don't know. And and we understand people in a way, both the good sides and the very, very dark sides of people in a way that most of this world can never understand.

John Mccarthy 00:17:52 (link to this point)

Yeah. So and I assume, Chris, when you say, like, handicap, you're referring to, you know, very frequently when you go on an interview, they see your military service. They thank you for it, but they don't view it as experience. Right?

Chris Albert 00:18:04 (link to this point)

Yep.

John Mccarthy 00:18:04 (link to this point)

And I think a lot of military personnel deal with that. And I I also it is it is it can be the most frustrating thing in the world to to sit in an interview. And and again, like getting into the professional side of things. Right? Like to go into an interview, sit down, and have somebody look at you and say like, hey.

You know, I see that you served, but that's a very operational role. Like, you know, I'm not looking to hire you for an operational position. Right? For some reason, the entire civilian world has come up with a belief, that that military personnel are only good at operations. Right?

And that that's where you you you should place this. And so they kind of discount your experience otherwise. It can be very, very disheartening. The one thing that I try very hard to do when I'm with other professionals, you know, now that I'm that I'm a couple years out of being out of the military is make it very clear that military personnel not only have a a great ability to interact with others, which is kinda what you're referring to, to just, like, meet people on the same wavelength and not and also understand communication. Right? They can also understand communication to a level that a lot of people cannot. So you and I know because we learned in the military that that bad orders can result in the death of thousands. Right? Like, if I if I give an unclear description of an order or or some sort of directive, it can result in the death of thousands.

Supposedly, when Robert E. Lee was standing at Gettysburg and he told Pickett to make his charge, he said go yonder and take that hill. Right? And Pickett didn't really know what he meant. He didn't know which hill he was talking to.

And Pickett charged his men across a field that if you looked at that field, it would blow your mind that any human being would charge into gunfire across this field. I'm talking no cover and concealment. Right? But he did it, and it was because of a bad order. Right?

And so you and I understand not only the importance of giving a message that can be received, but also receiving that message. Right? We understand that it goes two ways, and we also understand that it very well can go over someone's head. Right? So they teach officers about Napoleon's simple corporal, who apparently and this might be legend or folklore, but apparently, Napoleon had a corporal that followed him around who was who was a little slower than than your average bear.

And Napoleon, as after he finished writing his messages to his lieutenants, would hand them to the corporal and say, what does that say? Explain that message to me. Tell me what you get from this. And many times, the corporal would not have any idea. So then Napoleon would rewrite it so that it was more understandable so that no one could make a mistake based on what he had written, that the simplest person could understand his message that he was getting across.

And I think people discount our ability to not only get the job done, but to communicate well with subordinates and with leadership, be it positive or negative things. And and finally, I think that people discount the way that veterans have the capability to make it happen. And I and I see where you're coming from when you say that kind of thing, and I had to make that note because I agree with you completely. And those are the things that I preach to professionals when I'm talking about why you should hire a veteran.

Chris Albert 00:21:15 (link to this point)

Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think I mean, there's just so many lessons that people can take from all these different things, you know. And and I think leadership is lacking out there in in society in a way that it's having massive societal impact right now.

I mean, if you look at what's going on in the world between what's been happening with COVID nineteen, what's been happening with the riots in places like Portland and Seattle and freaking all up and down all across the country. I mean, there's not real leadership. And I think a lot of that happens because of a lack of communication. In some ways, there's more communication going on than ever. Right?

We've got social media. We've got Twitter. We got all these different things. But what's happening is we get into these little echo chambers where we're just echoing around our ideas, not actually putting them up to be tested and debated and things like that. But it's just we wanna say something and that's supposed to be in our minds taken as truth by the people who agree it agree entirely with us.

And then you get this alternative message out there when that comes out, you see that and that's the snake. It's evil. It's it's it's everything that we're not and and we we say that's the devil right there and you're not supposed to to see any truth in that at all. And, know, I I I'm I like you, I'm a patriot, and and I I lean a certain way politically, but at the same time, I'm like, if we can't talk about things, right, we all have to exist as a country. We have to have differing differing opinions.

If we can't even talk about things, we can't communicate, and if we can't lead each other, then we're not gonna function. It's not gonna happen.

John Mccarthy 00:23:01 (link to this point)

I think, so I it's unfortunate, but, this gentleman, Eric Greitens, who was the, he was he was either the governor or or state senator.

Chris Albert 00:23:11 (link to this point)

Yeah. I read his book. Resilience? Resilience. Yeah.

That's one of the first books I covered on this podcast.

John Mccarthy 00:23:19 (link to this point)

Oh, really?

Chris Albert 00:23:20 (link to this point)

Yep. Yeah.

John Mccarthy 00:23:21 (link to this point)

Oh, wow. Well, yes. You were a very well read man, Chris, because I was listening to a few episodes and prepping for this. And when I when I heard you start talking about Dostoevsky and and discussing the grand inquisitor on your last episode, I was pretty pretty impressed, and I loved that. So like you're saying with these ideas, right, like, you were discussing the concept of of freedom being more difficult than tyranny.

I think that's an amazing concept to discuss. Now when when I'm hearing this, right, I'm not I'm not hating that you're coming out here with a new idea, and I'm not, like, despising that you're coming out here with this new I'm playing with it in my mind. I'm thinking about it. I'm poking some holes in it maybe. I couldn't poke any holes that you made a great presentation, but, like, maybe I am.

Right? Maybe if you're posing an argument that I don't agree with, I'll poke some holes in it, and we can have a conversation about it, and maybe we can make that thought stronger. Right? Maybe you and I can come up with a way to to build it up. And I think I think the problem is what Eric Greitens says, and it's unfortunate.

I guess he's had some some issues. Yeah. Right. And so which sucks because I used to give his book out to every single one of my marines who was leaving the marine corps because I randomly stumbled across it, picked it up, and read it. I I do recommend it to people, resilience by Eric Greitens.

It's a great book, and he he basically is writing letters to one of his former SEALs on one of his teams, one of his team members about the different values and belief systems that he had developed in the military that he had now lost because he had become, an alcoholic in the civilian world and was leading a very bad life. I believe he'd ended up in prison. So it's actually just all letters to this guy that he that Eric Greitens had written. And there's a lot of discussion of morals and ethics and things like that, which is unfortunate because he, I guess, had a bad relationship. He cheated on his wife or something supposedly.

And so, you know, it kinda like messes up your head where you feel as though, like, this guy was just preaching to me about morals and ethics, and he goes and violates himself. But that being said, he talks about the need to have an important goal to work towards. And I think that that's a really good concept for a lot of people to consider because he says that when a team has a problem, that team generally is not working towards a hard enough goal. If they're bickering with each other, if they're fighting, if there's fighting amongst the team, they must not be working towards something that's difficult enough. Because if it was truly difficult enough, they would forget about their petty differences.

And the example that he uses, which I'm sure you've been through too, Chris, is is log PT. Right? When you're running with a squad and carrying a gigantic log that you need to get from point a to point b, Sometimes there may be some bickering about who's carrying what and where people are staying a lot. But eventually, the entire team realizes, like, we're never gonna get this log from point a to point b if we don't shut the hell up and move. And everybody just wants to get this done.

And so the bickering stops. And if you're ever on log PT, it's the most silent you ever see besides people, communicating. Right? They're just saying like, okay. I'm off.

You're on. I'm off. You're on. Right? You've got guys trading in and out on the log.

And so I think he makes the best point that the current situation in our country is a sign of the level of comfort that we have achieved and a lack of leadership at times is my belief. I think that it's a sign that we the average American is not worried about anything else going on in the world. Their life their life is so good for the most part. You know, there are exceptions to every rule that all they can focus on is what the news is telling them. All they can focus on is what they're hearing on social media.

Those are the only things they can focus on because if you had to put food on the table and were really struggling to provide for your loved ones and trying to make it through those things, you probably wouldn't be listening to that stuff. You wouldn't even be paying it any mind.

Chris Albert 00:27:18 (link to this point)

Right. Right. And, you know, there's so much there. I mean, like and and this will go into, like, the example of Eric Greitens himself, but also, you know, kind of thinking about about where we are and and and what leadership actually means. I mean, like you said, Eric Greitens, he had some some significant problems over the past couple of years. Right? Like, I don't think that discounts from the work he did.

John Mccarthy 00:27:44 (link to this point)

I agree with you. Yeah. I agree with you.

Chris Albert 00:27:45 (link to this point)

The the the the ideas he put out there into the world. I mean, like, we're getting into a time and a place right now where people you can't you can't teach certain things because of the character of the author. Right? Like, if we're starting to go into the Greek philosophy, we're starting to go into to to, you know, Western civilization. People are like, that's a history of imperialism.

It's a history of this. It's a history of that. But these are ideas that that kind of formulated the the the whole idea of freedom. Right? It's their ideas that that formulate the whole idea of freedom.

You know, I was talking about the Greeks and the importance of Greek civilization one time in a post, and somebody's like, yeah, but they all slept with little boys. And I'm like, you're missing the whole point, man. Like, it's fine. We wanna focus on that. We're gonna focus on that.

But everything that you believe in, you know, ranging from from our our our declaration of independence, our constitution, our bill of rights, that's based on that culture. Right? It's based on that culture. And I think, you know, one one of the things about which Greitens' book is highly based on stoic philosophy is that that you've gotta understand you are an imperfect individual. Right? We are imperfect. We're we're gonna really screw up from time to time. But, you know, at the same time, we got to let that past go, and we've got to move forward.

We've got to push forward. We've got to to to, you know, allow ourselves to have that imperfection to recognize it and then to work towards something better.

John Mccarthy 00:29:23 (link to this point)

Yeah. I I this zero defect mentality. Right? Like, people have the zero defect mentality that we can't have any problems. And honestly, I believe that it's what's led to I believe that it's what's led to an issue in this country currently.

Right? And I I I'm always a little testy about getting into current events too much, but this is what I'll say. We are currently struggling with our identity as a nation right now. Right? Dan Crenshaw points this out, and I'm not I'm not a republican, right, but I'm not a democrat either, you know, and I'm not just toting the the party line for anybody.

But I think this concept that he brings up is a really good one. He points out that that we're struggling with our identity right now as a nation, and we're wondering if, as a country, we can still be good even though at one point we had done some really horrible things. Right? And I and I think this is where we need to come to grips with things and understand it. And I say this from a position where, you know, I've dealt with the only racism that I've seen is is, you know, towards my friends, towards the people I grew up with and things like that and and or that I've been around as a a white male in society. And and I've seen discrimination. You know, I've been the victim of discrimination. That's for sure.

But racism, I've only seen towards friends. So, you know, I don't know a 100% what it's like to exactly be in those shoes, and that's a really tough thing to deal with. And I I feel for those people that have that have lived with that their whole lives, you know, dealing with systemic and and direct racism. And it's a if you read about Frederick Douglass and and read his autobiography, it could bring tears to your eyes to see, like, what we did to to people that he saw with his own eyes. But I believe that struggle through pain and suffering comes spirit and discipline.

That's something I've always lived my life by. Struggle is the only way to make progress. And I think that it's an unfortunate thing that we've had a lot of these situations throughout our history, but we wouldn't be here. You said it in your last episode, you know, Jefferson Franklin came out and said that I've given you a republic if you can keep it. Right?

Right. We we are now in the midst of the struggle of maintaining this republic, and the government is ruling at the consent of the governed. And I think a lot of people lose sight of that. But we are not doing a good job of showing why we are the people that should be led in this country towards freedom. Right?

And that that there's a large group of people in our political arena who have taken over, who are, I would say, not behaving as leaders. But then look at look at the average citizen that we see on on the on the news. They don't seem to be behaving the way I would expect an American to behave either. You know? So it's like the entire country needs to do a bit of a reset, in my opinion, and just make a decision that, like, we hold ourselves to a higher standard as a country because we are the experiment that has continuously done very well and survived past events that should have led to our extinction, you know, as a nation.

Chris Albert 00:32:31 (link to this point)

So And and that's the thing too. I mean, you bring up Frederick Douglass, and and this is where I wanna get into kind of the title of of of your show. You know, you look at Frederick Douglass. Right? And you read his July 4 essay.

Right? And what he's saying there is is, you know, what does the July 4 mean to me? Right? You haven't let us in. You haven't allowed us to to to be part of this thing that you call America.

So why should we celebrate the fourth of July? Right? And he's kind of saying, you know what? You claim yourself to be this bastion of freedom. You claim yourself to be this, but that doesn't exist for one of the biggest parts of your population.

Right? And, you know, if you wanna live up to your ideals, then you need to do this. Right? You need to let us in. That's what that's we need to be part of this.

Right? Same thing with, like, Martin Luther King. Ben Shapiro talked about this on on Joe Rogan. But, like, when you get into where the ideas are coming from today, they're saying no. No.

The ideals are bad. Right? They're saying that the the the whole country's bad. Right? That because you you you did this in your past, everything that's happened over the last, you know, sixty years since the civil right right act, doesn't matter.

Right? The whole thing is just poison. Right? The whole the whole system's poisoning ranging from your economic system to your governmental system, to the symbols that that you hold dear. Right?

And there there's a psychological difference there. Right? If you believe in your mind that somebody else is evil. Like, if you and I believe that the other was evil. Right?

And I don't believe you're evil. I think you're a great guy.

John Mccarthy 00:34:16 (link to this point)

I appreciate that.

Chris Albert 00:34:17 (link to this point)

If if if we believe that that that the other is evil, we're not gonna sit here and have a conversation. Right? We're probably going to be stalking each other and trying to kill each other.

Right?

Yeah. Because you don't wanna exist in the same society as evil. Right? We what we do with evil people here in this country is we either lock them up for life or we execute them. Right?

And the the idea that's out there is that everything that a lot of Americans believe is supposedly evil. And it's it's a shift in psychology that's happened over the past five, six years that I know it preexisted and you know preexisted in academia for a long period of time that's now coming out and actually having policy implications for our society.

John Mccarthy 00:35:05 (link to this point)

Yeah.

Chris Albert 00:35:05 (link to this point)

And so, you know, one of the things I wanna ask you with with the concept of postmodernism. Right? With, you know, the theories, you know, starting with Foucault up to to kinda what you see now. Did you do you do you do you follow that? Do you do you take that?

Do do you see that realm of thought as being something that that could eventually be constructive, or or or do you see it as something that's gonna be entirely destructive?

John Mccarthy 00:35:36 (link to this point)

So the reason for the for the postmodern patriot name, right? So to to like kind of educate anybody who hasn't gotten into that, you know, the there's a belief that we are currently living. Some people believe that we're currently living in a postmodern society. Others believe that we're moving towards, the postmodern society. And one of the issues that that exists in a postmodern society is a lack of willingness to participate in the group.

Right? And I believe Goffman proved that the the group is the only thing that could create what he called collective effervescence. Right? And that was something that was very sacred. It was that that unified action of the group participating in ritual or action.

It could be war. It could be celebration, whatever it was. That was one of the most beautiful things that a society could obtain. Right? It was the collective working together.

And, of course, this is this thought process is what, you know, also fed into socialism and communism and things like that, which is not something that I'm portraying or saying that that that I agree with because I'm a avid capitalist. If I wasn't if I if I was a socialist, I would not be working in the field that I do currently or doing what I do. But the belief is that people in a postmodern society are less likely to participate in strong groups. Right? And they're less likely to be involved in your VFW, in churches, in social organizations that exist wherever, but then also civic organizations.

Right? They're not necessarily gonna be participating or acting out of a belief of civic responsibility. And I argued that I was the conundrum. Right? That that and that the the opportunity for the conundrum could exist or the contradiction that you could be a patriot in a postmodern world.

And so that is why I came up with that name, and that's why I put that name forward that you could be the person I appreciate it. That you could be the person who does participate in the group, who does understand that, you know, because we see now, especially in my generation, right, the the millennials are very narcissistic people. Right? But but we can learn to not be narcissistic. We can learn to not put ourselves first, and we can learn to put the group ahead of ourselves.

And being a part of strong groups is the only thing that has made me the person that I am today. And I think not enough of us understand that. Right? When I went to high school, I played football. The football team made me the man that I was, right, when I when I was in high school.

Then I went to college and I joined a fraternity, and people think that that's just like an animal house or something like that. We ran a business. Right? We were a fill we were a philanthropic organization. We were literally running a business.

Now we partied too, but that organization made me who I was in school. And then I went into the marine corps, and I joined the marine infantry, and the infantry made me the man that I am today. And now here I am, I'm back home, and I'm with my church, and I'm a part of my community, and I'm participating in that. And that is who I am now. Right?

That's how I become the father and the son and the husband and all of those things. And I think and and that is my sense of purpose, values, and belonging that I've achieved. Right? That's where I found that for me now, and that's where you obtain happiness. And I think that my peers, a lot of them are so unhappy because they can't find that sense of purpose where those values exist in that and where belonging exists in that sense of purpose.

And so they are truly unhappy with themselves. And so the postmodern patriot name is an encouragement to people to be a part of strong groups and to do those things that are discouraged in a postmodern world.

Chris Albert 00:39:14 (link to this point)

That's that is awesome. I love that concept. And and what you said there, there's so much truth in it. Because I think the more we isolate ourselves, right, the the more men don't know how to become men, the more we don't know we we we don't live up to values, we don't live up to standards. And if you think about it, when we're in the corps, right, and this is one of those examples, we were held to very, very high standards, right?

There there there's a zero failure mentality at in the Marine Corps infantry, right? You you don't want to fail. At the same time, they understand that you're coming in here, and they got to get you to here. And there's got to be a learning curve somehow. Right?

And so, you know, they put a lot into you have NCOs surrounding you. You've got officers. Right? You've got people around you who want you to succeed, who need you to succeed.

John Mccarthy 00:40:10 (link to this point)

Yeah.

Chris Albert 00:40:11 (link to this point)

And if you isolate yourself, you don't have that. You you are left to your own devices. You are left to your own thoughts. You are left to your own negativity. And and and that's what happens.

John Mccarthy 00:40:24 (link to this point)

Yeah. I couldn't agree with you more. And I always said to people, and I had a I had a company commander. He's still I look up to him. Think he'll have some stars on his collar one day.

He'll be a general, I believe. We'll see it. But I owe him a lot for the level of leadership that I had developed, in the military, and he he and for all the lessons I learned. Because when I failed, he was standing right there to just kinda like, hey, John, this is what you did wrong there. This is how you could do it better.

And then just off, you know, was like, you just managed to be there at the right time every time. And I don't know if that was just by chance or or what have you, but he was a big proponent in me becoming the man that I was that I am today. And one of the things he used to always say to me is, John, you'll never ever in your entire life be as prepared again for being a platoon as you were for being a platoon commander. Right? You will never have another job that you were so prepared for as you were for being a platoon commander.

He's like, you graduated the infantry officer course, and you are literally a subject matter expert. No one knows more than you until the next infantry officer course graduates. No one knows more about than you about the the marine corps tactics and techniques that they employ about our table of organization, about all of the weapons that we have and our skill set and how to employ them because nobody does. And that will never happen for you again. And I think people don't realize, right, before you step up in front of that platoon, you've got, like, a year and a half of schooling.

Right? You're literally in training for almost a year and a half before you even set foot in front of a marine and and take charge of the platoon and carry out the plan of the day. Right? And and the same goes for a lot of the enlisted personnel. Right?

They're in school. They're they go to boot camp. Then they go to SOI. Right? Then they get in front of platoon, and we're it's crawl, walk, run everywhere they go.

And the it's groups that exist to propel you forward. Right? Now we have this institution that is building this person and making them who they are and putting them up in front of these people. And I think that that doesn't come about if the individual is not willing to sacrifice their own identity for that of the group.

Chris Albert 00:42:33 (link to this point)

Right.

John Mccarthy 00:42:33 (link to this point)

And and and you can go to a very bad place with that mentality. Right? I mean, fascism in the in World War two, that is the that is literally what that is. That is total sacrifice to the individual for the betterment of the group, and we saw the horrors that come out of that. So I'm not saying that we only need to participate in groups and that you shouldn't be an individual and shed your your, you know, uniqueness and things like that.

I'm not saying that, but you we we have gone so far in the individual perspective and and becoming individualistic that we need to move slightly back towards collectivism.

Chris Albert 00:43:07 (link to this point)

Right. Right. And and, you know, there's some aspects of, you know, at the end of the day, what we want is to win. We want a better society. If you're in if you're in a company, you want your company to make money so that you get a paycheck.

If you're in the military, you want your unit your unit to be as proficient as possible so that if you get in a battle, then you know, you're gonna win that battle. Right? And I think what people don't necessarily understand right now is that by saying it's gotta be this way or no other way, you're not gonna win because there's always gonna be a segment of society that's saying, fuck no. We don't want that. We're gonna do everything we fucking can to destroy you.

Right? And that's that's what people don't necessarily understand right now.

John Mccarthy 00:43:55 (link to this point)

Yeah. And I don't know why it needs to be I don't I don't know what we need to do to stop this whole, like, almost a violent rhetoric that exists in the political arena. Right? And, like, here's the thing. People are not considering the consequences of their actions when they say or do things.

Right? So I don't care if you're blue or red, whoever you are. Most likely, you are trying to break down the character of the opposite side by saying that they are x, y, and z. And and this isn't something new where, you know, politicians have been defaming each other since, know, after George Washington took over as president of The United States. Right?

It has been something that I think there's, like, political pamphlets about calling Andrew Jackson and his wife, like, the devil and things like that, and it's absurd. Right? It's been going on forever. But if you're constantly breaking down that other person and going to extremes, maybe bending the truth to make that person look like a bad person, you're ruining your own credibility. And I think that what what this has evolved into is these talking heads that exist now are literally just on the news trying to break each other down.

And through doing it, they've lost the trust of the American people. And and I think that that it's unfortunate. You know, you're right. You can't throw the baby out with a bathwater of somebody like Eric Greitens. You know, he shouldn't be completely just forgotten about for what he said based on his actions.

But it's unfortunate because a guy we need politicians or we need leaders. I shouldn't say politicians. We need leaders who are gonna hold themselves to a higher standard, and they're willing to not do the things that get more votes or more time on TV, but they wanna do the things that are gonna lead them to serving their people. And I think servant based leadership, which is something you and I are very familiar with in the military. Right?

Servant based leadership is where people need to go and to understand how to best lead their people out of tough times.

Chris Albert 00:45:56 (link to this point)

Right. And and just to to expand on that, you know, that means that if I'm your leader, I'm working for you. Right? I'm I'm working for you. I am serving you.

I'm working to make you better. I'm working to bring you to a better place. And I'm working for everybody in that unit. Right? I'm working for everybody in that unit.

And yeah, I think you're very, very right there. Servant based leadership is something we need to be developing out there in society.

John Mccarthy 00:46:22 (link to this point)

Yeah.

Chris Albert 00:46:22 (link to this point)

And, you know, of course, to to bring Dostoevsky back into the mix. I mean, I think too many people are and and this is this might just be a human a human thing where we want miracle, mystery, and power. Right? We're more attracted to miracle, mystery, and power than we are to nuanced.

John Mccarthy 00:46:44 (link to this point)

Right?

Chris Albert 00:46:45 (link to this point)

And that's kinda what the media is doing right now. They're they're they're doing this whole miracle, mystery, and power thing, and so are the politicians. Right? And and and, you know, you it's it's far as, like, what our current leadership does right now. I I mean, and and I've got great things to say about about our administration.

I've got, you know, some honest critique about our administration, but they're definitely using miracle, mystery, and power when they're they're communicating with the masses.

John Mccarthy 00:47:14 (link to this point)

I couldn't agree more. And, yeah, I like that you say that too. I have honest critique. Right? Like, what a what a what a wonderful way to just put it.

Like, oh, you know, they suck. They're awful. No. No. No.

I have honest critique. You know, I have some honest critique for them just to bring these things up. Hey, guys. Like, I'm just gonna call you on that. This is another thing that that you develop in the military is this I and I don't know if this is because, like, it was somewhat acceptable for you to punch somebody in the face if they really crossed the line in the military.

Right? Like, I don't know if that's the only reason because that was something that I struggled with coming out of the military a lot was the way that certain people spoke to me. And not not in the sense that I was like, oh, I'm like a captain getting out of the marine corps, and I deserve to be spoken to a certain way. But but no. Not at all.

Like, literally, the way that some human beings communicate with each other, it blows my mind, and that wasn't allowed in the military. And so, like, one of the beautiful things in the military is, like, in an after action report or when you're doing a breakdown, like, postmortem of an exercise, you could look at your peer or your friend and say, like, hey, dude. Like, that the way you left my right flank open when we tried to take that town back there, like, we would've all gotten killed. You can't do that again. And it's like, good to go, man.

Understood. I'll I'll note that for next time. And maybe he's thinking in his head, like, f you, bro, or something like that. But but he's definitely next time gonna remember that and and not make that mistake, myself included. Right?

Anytime I made a mistake, getting a quick call out, like, hey. Don't do that again. That you really screwed that up. Got it. Good to go.

And there's no there's no one's holding that. Right? It's just immediate, like, don't do it again. We're done with it. We're moving forward.

And and then you choose not to do that. So I think to bring, like, the entire concept full circle there is that is that there's there's a certain skill set in being able to look at each other and and point out an honest critique and point out a benefit. Right? Sustain and improve. I want you to sustain this skill set.

I want you to improve this skill set. It's it's lacking a little bit. But either way, I'm here with you. I'm gonna support you all the way through it because you and I are in this together. Let's keep moving.

You know?

Chris Albert 00:49:24 (link to this point)

Absolutely. Absolutely. So where can people go to find you? Where where can they they find your show? And and what have you had going on your show lately?

I know you just had to go to Dakota Meyer on. Right?

John Mccarthy 00:49:37 (link to this point)

Yeah. I just got to interview Dakota. It was a really awesome interview, and he was kind enough to put the show up on his feed as well. So, he sort of doubled up for me, and it was a really awesome interview. Before that, I interviewed I interviewed one of my best friends, Patrick Nugent.

He's a retired captain in the Marine Corps. He was on his way out to his second deployment as an executive officer, and he was coordinating a live fire training exercise in Hawaii, when he was moving with the support by fire unit under sorry. He was moving with the maneuver unit under the fires of a support by fire unit, and the support by fire unit didn't cut off their fires, and and a marine shot him, in his back. So he took around

Chris Albert 00:50:21 (link to this point)

Thank you hearing that.

John Mccarthy 00:50:22 (link to this point)

Yeah. It does suck. So he took around his back. He got rushed from Hawaii out to Tripler Medical. It's a army base out there.

And then he got sent to Walter Reed, where he was told that he would never he might not ever walk again and that he would most likely not have children because it severed his sciatic nerve. And I I highly recommend listening to that episode because he actually just qualified for the Invictus Games, this past year in cycling, power lifting, and rowing. And he, he's also a just complete animal. He's got a ripped up six pack right now. We just did the grit endurance test to celebrate the day.

He took a round in the back, and it was a 50 mile bike ride, a bunch of track work. We did 400 meter bear crawl, 800 meter lunges, a 100 burpees. And then we went into some sprints and some suicides at the track. We came home. We did 250 pull ups and 500 push ups.

And then we did a 15,000 meter row, and we finished it off with a seven mile hike with a 35 pound pack. And we did that to honor the day that he took that round in the back and maybe, you know, would have never walked again. And he completed it with us. And he beat me, like, just so we're clear, he beat me on the bike. He beat a lot of people on the bike, and he's an animal.

So those are some episodes I would recommend checking out because they're just awesome stories, and and that's what I've been focusing on.

Chris Albert 00:51:46 (link to this point)

That's awesome. That's awesome. And and, what's what's the URL for the for for your website?

John Mccarthy 00:51:52 (link to this point)

Postmodernpatriot.blog.

Chris Albert 00:51:56 (link to this point)

Awesome. Awesome. Well, John, you know, I really appreciate you coming on. You know, we we it's been a little bit of a delay. I just moved across country out here to Florida, and then I'm I'm working on closing on a house right now.

So it's been a little bit crazy with us going back and forth, but I'm glad to finally get you on here. And I apologize for all the delays. You know? And and I I really appreciate the synergies of of of what we're doing. And, you know, I it's always good to to to speak to a fellow traveler and a fellow communicator.

And, you know, thank you for everything you're doing for for society, for for our community, and and for putting your ideas out there.

John Mccarthy 00:52:41 (link to this point)

Chris, I wanna thank you for letting me come on your show, and I and it is a mutual appreciation and and admiration. If you don't mind, I just wanna share one last thing if that's alright with you just because we spoke about a lot. And one of the things I wanna get across is something that is I've been toying with my own head, and then we can totally wrap it up. But two weeks ago, I was in a Walmart. I don't ever go to Walmart. I I actually disagree with Walmart. But two weeks ago, was in a Walmart, and I saw an old man checking out with his wife, and he had a World War two veteran hat on. We don't see that that often anymore.

You know? Like, that's a big deal. You know? When I see the Vietnam vet, I'm like, alright. There's a war fighter.

But when I see a World War two vet, it's a big deal to me. And so I thank every veteran I see for their service, but I I walked up to him immediately. I had to go talk to this guy. And I said, hey. How you doing, war fighter? You know, I was talking to him. I said, thank you for your service. And he's the man was little and he was old, and he looks at me and he goes he goes, oh, no problem. And I go I go, what was it like over there? And he said he goes, it was pretty crazy.

You know? And he but he was saying it with a smile on his face. It was really wonderful. And I said I said, well, thank you for your service. I said, was in the marines for six and a half years, you know, and I was an infantry officer.

And he looks at me and he says he says, my son was a a Vietnam vet. He was a Vietnam marine. And I said, oh my god. I said, what's he doing with his life right now? You you know, you served in World War two.

Your son was in Vietnam. It's amazing. And he says he says, oh my you know, he took his life a couple years ago. And and I actually started to cry, like, right in front of him. I I literally saw my team I was wearing a mask.

My eyes started welling up. He said, you know, he he suffered from PTSD and Agent Orange and everything. And he saw me crying, so he actually, you know, in a COVID world, he reaches out and taps me on my back and he says, it's okay. He served his country. And so when I left there, I was irritated.

I was angry at at at this country because I felt as though people were not doing this man justice who lost his son, and and gave you know, as a father, I'm even getting choked up right now, but as a father, to give that that you can sacrifice your own body, and it'll be one thing. But to sacrifice your son, it's the hardest thing I think you could ever deal with. But I reminded myself that that what we're seeing on the news, that that the things that are going on in the world, that is not the average American. The average American is that old man. The average American is his son.

The average American is you and I. We are the people who are not out protesting and and rioting. Protesting is great. There's nothing wrong with protesting, but we're not out riding or we're not the talking heads on the news that are trying to perpetuate this anger in America. It's the guys like you and I who are trying to unite this country and not divide this country, and we need more of that.

We need more people to find a common identity and not to try to find a common enemy. And so I just I I was hoping to talk about that. I just wanna share that. I'm sorry for reopening that conversation.

Chris Albert 00:55:44 (link to this point)

That's okay. That's that's a beautiful story. And, you know, I think you're right. I mean, America is that person who who gets up every day, who who puts their work hat on, who who push pushes forward no matter what. And, you know, it's definitely it's not ripping things down. And I wish the media would cover more of that. Amen.

Amen. I wish I wish they would. I wish more of these stories would get out there.

But at the same time, that's why we exist. Right?

John Mccarthy 00:56:16 (link to this point)

Exactly.

Chris Albert 00:56:17 (link to this point)

This is a longer platform. We don't have little sound bites. We don't, you know, we don't we don't cut people off and things like that. And and I think that's, you know, that's what needs to happen is is more of us need to get out there, express our voices, and, you know, tell this story of the real America. Right?

And and and I really appreciate you bringing up that story. That that that is bringing tears up in my eyes.

John Mccarthy 00:56:43 (link to this point)

Yeah. And and you're a 100% right about that, Chris. It's it's the real America, and it's what people need to hear. And I think I'm excited. I hope that you'll come on my show, and I hope that you'll you'll share your story, you can drop some of your knowledge.

Because I think you might with the PhD, you're operating on a higher wavelength than I am when it comes to social security.

Chris Albert 00:57:02 (link to this point)

A PhD is like, here's what I'd say about it. It doesn't make you smarter than the average bear. It it makes you it means that you spent an inordinate amount of time thinking about one little tiny subject in the great lexicon of knowledge. Right? That that's all a PhD means.

Doesn't doesn't mean anything beyond that.

John Mccarthy 00:57:25 (link to this point)

Well, it's still something to be respected. It's definitely something to be respected. So it is an and I appreciate you having me on the show. You get people could also check me out on on Instagram at post modern patriot, and my podcast is available wherever you can listen to podcasts.

Chris Albert 00:57:40 (link to this point)

Awesome. Awesome. Well, John, again, thank you so much, man. I really appreciated this conversation. It got me fired up for my day before I head out and tackle the world.

And, to everybody out there, you know, I I hope you got a lot out of this episode. And as always, I want you to get out there and live your best lives while you can. You don't have forever. Take advantage of it now. Memento mori. Absolutely. This is John and Chris, and we are out. Alright. Alright. I hope you guys got a lot out of that conversation. I really love John, and I really love everything he stands for, everything he's working toward.

And I really enjoyed this conversation. I hope hope you guys got a lot out of it, and I hope you go check out his show, The Postmodern Patriot. He's doing a lot of great things. He's putting a lot of great things out there into the world. Great interviews with people like Dakota Meyer and and others.

And so I hope you go check him out. We are back in business over here. We're recording three times a week, trying to get as many episodes out to you as possible. I am just finished with my move to Florida, and I just am finishing up closing on a house. So settling down here.

But I hope you guys check out the rest of our stuff here at Warrior Soul. Head over to www.warriorsoulagoge, that's agoge.com. If you can't, head over to iTunes and write us a written rating and review. Again, I don't ask for anything if you can. I just want you to spread word about this show.

And and that's about it for this week, guys. I hope you are getting out there and living your best lives while you can. And, if you need anything, you let us know. I'm at warrior soul on at warrior soul agoge on Instagram. We've got the Warrior Soul, Facebook page, the the Warrior Soul Agoge Facebook group.

And, yeah, get out there, keep going, and push forward, and live this life to its fullest, guys. Talk to you all soon.