Reviewing 12 Rules for Life by Jordan B. Peterson

Chris Albert 00:00:00 (link to this point)

This is Chris Albert, and I'm here to remind you of one thing. Someday, you're going to die. Now that's not some morbid statement or scary idea. It's solid fact. Your time here on this earth is limited.

We need to be reminded of this as much as possible for one simple reason, to live your best life while you can. This is the Warrior Soul Podcast.

What's going on, everybody? Welcome to Warrior Soul Podcast, and this is a joint edition once again with mister Mike Ergo of the Transitions From War podcast, US Marine Corps veteran and triathlete and supporter of Gold Star families. Really awesome guy that we've been collaborating with over here for the past couple of weeks. We've got a really awesome book that we're covering today. And this is one of the most influential books on my life over the past year, and that's 12 Rules for Life by doctor Jordan Peterson.

Really just just fantastic book that goes over some very simple, but also very deep concepts that anyone should consider as they are moving forward in life and trying to make the most out of this life. So I'm not gonna go into what the book's about right now. We'll cover that in the episode. And and, you know, it me and Mike, we're we're good at talking about things. Well, maybe, maybe not.

Depends on how you how you look at things. But I want to encourage everybody. Don't just listen to this show. Definitely go out there and get the book. I got the audible version, and it was great because doctor Peterson, he he read it himself.

And so you can hear him emphasize certain points and really get into, you know, the important concepts there. So definitely check this book out, 12 rules for life. And, I just wanna say before we get into the episode, this podcast would not be possible without the good people over at F Bomb Nutrition. They make awesome, delicious packages of fats. So So they make macadamia nut butters.

They mix them up with chocolate. They mix them up with sea salt, with coconut butter, with pecan butter. They're so good. Head over to www.dropanfbomb.com. Use the code Warrior Soul at checkout.

You'll get 20% off your first order. And with that, that's all I got, guys. Let's get into this awesome conversation with Mike Ergo, on doctor Jordan Peterson's 12 rules for life. What is going on everybody? Welcome back.

This is Chris Albert and Mike Ergo. We're here to talk to you today about we're gonna talk about Jordan Peterson's book, 12 rules for living. Right? And that's a great book. I love that book.

I just listened to it. I finished listening to it last month. And the thing about driving while listening to that book is that it could be hazardous because it kinda, like, drew me in. I was like I was, like, on the freeway and Jordan Peterson's talking about just stuff. And I'm like, shit.

Like, this shit is so engaging. I'm almost crashing into the cars in front of me. I but but yeah. Did you listen to it or did you read it like

Mike Ergo 00:03:54 (link to this point)

I listened to it. And similar thing, I I got I just I seem to have arrived places without knowing, really remembering the drag. I think he's got a kind of a hypnotic voice and I'm always you know, he's got that Kermit Frog voice too.

Chris Albert 00:04:11 (link to this point)

Yeah.

Mike Ergo 00:04:11 (link to this point)

But really is so engaging that I think more than other books, I didn't have to really force myself to pay attention. It just was that engaging.

Chris Albert 00:04:26 (link to this point)

Yeah. I the the way the voice sounds, it's like a it's like a nineteen fifties dad who was, like, perfectly Christian, came back and was going to give you some lessons about living, and he calls you things like bucko, things like that. Yeah, that's that's the way I got. But I love the book. I love Jordan Peterson.

It's just like it was the way he talks because he's super Canadian and everything. He he read his own book. You know, that kind of stuff was was there.

Mike Ergo 00:05:02 (link to this point)

But I think when they read their own books because like I was reading when we're listening to Dave Goggins book.

Chris Albert 00:05:09 (link to this point)

Yeah.

Mike Ergo 00:05:10 (link to this point)

It was read by that other guy. Know, it was hard for a while to really take that seriously until I really got into it. But with Peterson, I mean, he knows his inflections. He knows the tones. I mean, when you read your own book, you know how it's always a sound.

Chris Albert 00:05:27 (link to this point)

Yeah. That's what I appreciate about, like, Jocko and, like, and and and guys who do that. Because I've read I've I've listened to some books where the author didn't read the book, and they have, like, a like, I'm reading I'm listening to Dave Asprey's book right now. Right? The Game Changers.

And so Dave Asprey has, like I mean, I'll just say he's got kind of a feminine voice. Right? And, like so part of it was I was running while I was listening to it, and they said, okay. Dave Asprey is reading, and he's reading the beginning of every every chapter. But then then then a, what's it called, a professional, you know, speaker, professional readers taking over.

And when they said a professional readers taking over, I was like, oh, thank God. I don't have to listen to Dave Asprey anymore. But then he hired a professional reader. I think that that sounds like he wants to sound. And so it was super alpha voice.

So it's like, you know, the the professional reader comes on and he's like, you must take vitamin D to ensure that your testosterone rises appropriately and things like that. I'm like, alright.

Mike Ergo 00:06:42 (link to this point)

Sometimes it's it's trying a little too hard.

Chris Albert 00:06:44 (link to this point)

Yeah. Yeah. But but Jordan Peterson's book was awesome. What what's one of the biggest things you've taken out of it?

Mike Ergo 00:06:54 (link to this point)

I think I think the first one, stand up straight with your shoulders back, that rule just started to change. I started to evaluate all the ways in which my posture was either a reflection or affected how I was interacting with people and how I was viewing myself and what I was presenting to the world. I started to think of different ways in that where I slump. What really got me there, and I've been through this a lot over the last couple weeks, is I can tell if I'm not really engaging as much as I should, either in my job or what I'm doing, if I'm not facing it. And if I'm not just facing it directly, sometimes I'll stand to the side or sometimes I will position myself differently. But either way, role here about how we present ourselves to the world really got me to think and even go deeper than just some of the examples he gave.

Chris Albert 00:08:04 (link to this point)

Yeah. That's stand up straight with his shoulders back, that's a that's a big one. I think that your posture definitely dictates what you're saying to the world. Right? And the way he gets into it is this.

For human beings, our most vulnerable parts are our chests. Right? And like, when you're standing up straight with your shoulders back, it's it it it it means that, you know, you're exposing yourself to the world. You're putting yourself out there. You're you're saying, you know, you can throw whatever you want at me.

And, yeah, that's that's really important. I think when when somebody cowers in their body language, I've seen so many people do that lately since since since I've gotten to got to understand body language a little bit more. I've seen a lot of people do that. I've seen a lot of people, you know, stare at the ground when they're talking, slump, things like that. But it's also yeah, it's forced me to to try to keep my shoulders up a little bit more when I'm talking with people to try to walk around as in in straight up my posture whenever I'm going through a door.

That's a Jordan Harbinger from from from the Jordan Harbinger show. Every time he walks through a door, he puts a reminder to himself to straighten up his shoulders and stick his chest out to make better first impressions on people. And I think it's really important.

Mike Ergo 00:09:42 (link to this point)

Yeah. You can definitely tell when people are slumped over and have the posture that's not confident. And then it's also communication, like we know, is much more about the nonverbals and our posture and how we present ourselves than the actual words. It gets easier to understand why some people don't get taken as seriously, or if I'm saying something and I'm not standing in a way that's really showing that I believe what I'm saying, people are not going to take it seriously. So it has really big implications, I think, with everything. Also, know, if I come in as a leader and I'm supposed to be in charge of something and I'm not standing with that confident posture or I'm not really taking charge in that way, people are going get that message and people aren't really going to absorb the content of what I'm saying. It confuses people.

Mean dogs are probably the greatest example we have in our life. You know, they constantly are showing or displaying, you know, who is in charge and the hierarchy.

Not that it's a big battle, but everyone should try to be, you know, the top talk. But if

Chris Albert 00:11:10 (link to this point)

Okay.

Mike Ergo 00:11:13 (link to this point)

Who's where in the hierarchy? It's just gonna be confusing. This helps us to really, like

Chris Albert 00:11:23 (link to this point)

You cut out for just a second. That screen froze up, but I think we're I think we're back now. So you're saying it was the hierarchy you're saying the hierarchy, we're constantly reminded of it?

Mike Ergo 00:11:37 (link to this point)

Yeah. We're we're reminded of it by dogs. You can see, know, which one's alpha, which one's, you know, more submissive. And they know where they fit in the pack. And not that it's everybody should be try to be, you know, the top dog, but we live in a hierarchy. No matter where we go, you always look at a group if you're going out to dinner, everyone kind of looks to one person to make the decision, even if you're all agreeing on something.

Chris Albert 00:12:06 (link to this point)

Right.

Mike Ergo 00:12:06 (link to this point)

So if we want to be that person or if we want to beat people in a way, we need to display that with our posture as well.

Chris Albert 00:12:14 (link to this point)

Well, that's the other thing because I think, you know, one of his arguments there is is that hierarchies are ancient. Like, they go back to to, like, lobsters, and that's how ancient they are. Like, he got criticized for using lobsters in the book. But but what his argument was was that hierarchies are so ancient, they go down to the most primitive of life forms on Earth, like life forms that have been here since the dawn of time. And, you know, the thing he was he was saying was that, you know, you need to understand that hierarchies exist and you need to take your place in them because if you're at the bottom of the hierarchy, it's not a good place to be.

And that's essentially what he what he'd see. He's taking a very realist tone. And the reason why he's doing this is because a lot of people are out there saying they wanna destroy the hierarchy. They wanna get rid of the hierarchy. He's saying it's not that the hierarchy is good or bad or anything like that.

It's that it exists, and you're not gonna get rid of it no matter what you do. And and so you need to understand how to act within it.

Mike, you there? Hello? Let me just pause.

Alright. Back.

Hey.

Sorry. You were, like, you were frozen there again for a second.

Mike Ergo 00:13:56 (link to this point)

And I think, you know, this hierarchy exists outside of what we consider, you know, official structures, you know, in our jobs and in our families, but just in informal social groups too. And I think what it does is when we present ourselves, then it challenges other people to do the same and really improves the group, you know, rather than keeps it stagnant or dropped, but, you know, takes it down.

Chris Albert 00:14:26 (link to this point)

Right.

Mike Ergo 00:14:26 (link to this point)

So more challenge to to be better than themselves.

Chris Albert 00:14:31 (link to this point)

Right. Exactly. Exactly. And like yeah. I mean, like and that's the thing.

If you want it and that's the other the other aspect. There's a lot of people out there who who are you know, they wanna tear every order of society down. They wanna tear everything down. And and what he's saying is, like, you gotta get yourself in order first. You gotta get yourself in order first before you can start even thinking about trying to to rip society apart or to try to reorder society.

And that's a it's a dangerous thing if you don't

Mike Ergo 00:15:03 (link to this point)

Set your house in perfect order before you criticize the world.

Chris Albert 00:15:10 (link to this point)

Right. Yeah. There's yeah. That's that's one of them. And then do you want to do these in order?

Because we can go we can go through a bunch of them. But Yeah. Yeah. Set your house in perfect order before you criticize the world. That's number that's number six.

Yeah. Number two is kinda like, I think a really important one too, which is treat yourself like someone you're responsible for helping.

Right?

Mike Ergo 00:15:38 (link to this point)

That's a good one. Remember the study you talked about where people are more likely to have if they were given medications for their animal, they're more likely to administer those medications to the pet than they would be to themselves.

Chris Albert 00:15:55 (link to this point)

Oh yeah.

I'm way more likely to give my dog medication than I am myself.

Mike Ergo 00:16:02 (link to this point)

Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, the same way people say, yeah, I'm my own worst critic. It's that mindset. And even in my job, when I'm working with people one on one, is if they're in a tough situation or they're in a tough relationship or doing something they don't really like, it's always a question. You had a friend doing this, what would you tell them?

And the answer is almost always different. And so that perspective right there, that one's helped me out a lot Because if you think, okay, well, it's just me. I can settle for less where I can treat myself not as well. If you can just shift that slightly and say, okay, how would I do this for someone else? And I don't know why, but it makes such a big difference.

Chris Albert 00:16:57 (link to this point)

You know what's interesting is the way I looked at this, because I I run business courses, like I teach people how to run businesses. And I I get a lot of people who have made a lot of mistakes in the past. And a lot of people come to me with their with their their issues, their problems, not just their business problems, but also their mental problems and things that are holding them back. And I find I have a much easier time giving them advice than I do taking my own advice a lot of times when it comes to that stuff because, dude, I look back at my past. Like, I told you I was up doing this wellness thing this past weekend.

Right? And and when you do those types of things, like, get you reflect a lot. Right? You you reflect, you're meditating, you're kinda like going back. I was having a real hurdle, like, kind of forgiving myself for for shit that I did, like, or didn't do, like, way back.

It's more the stuff I didn't do that I have a hard time forgiving myself for, you know. And and it's, you know, and and and somebody had said to me they're like they're like Chris, you you got such an amazing life. You know, you're you're doing you're doing media. You're doing your business. You're living, you know, you've got an amazing girlfriend and everything like that.

But I find and and I understand that. I know how amazing my life is, but like at the same time, like in my deep dark part of my mind, I'm like, Chris, you're such a fucking shit bag. What the fuck is wrong with you? You know what I mean? Like, why would you think about that?

Blah blah blah, you know, that kind of shit. And and I think we all go through that to some extent, But I don't know, man. Sometimes I'm like, I'll be I'll be up at night and like thinking about shit I did when I was 20 years old. And I'm like, why the hell did I do that? You know?

Mike Ergo 00:18:58 (link to this point)

Yeah.

Chris Albert 00:18:59 (link to this point)

Yeah.

Mike Ergo 00:19:00 (link to this point)

I was I was doing a little bit of that yesterday. And it's interesting just the ability to put that into practice and look at myself as a friend, look at myself as someone I have well wishes for and want to do better. It seems to change that. And I think it changes it more putting it into practice when you're actually doing it, the thought, and then you do it makes a bigger difference than just thinking about it. Because you're right, if you think about it, then without doing it, it doesn't have that same staying power.

Chris Albert 00:19:41 (link to this point)

Yeah. Well, that and like, I think that you do you have to constantly switch the conversation back to gratitude. Like, you gotta constantly go back to being, like, thankful for what you've got right now. And I hate saying switch a conversation back to gratitude because as we've talked about before, that's such a cliche freaking thing for a podcast to say. But but, like, I mean, it's true.

You gotta be grateful for what you have, and that'll turn all that other shit off. Like, when you finally realize that you're in a good place.

Mike Ergo 00:20:15 (link to this point)

Well, what's you know, we should and have those thoughts, then really where does that lead you? It doesn't ever lead you any place to great. You know, it can usually lead to more negative feelings and then more negative thoughts and then more negative actions, either to get rid of that feeling or to unconsciously start living it again. And so Yeah. Know, whole just it doesn't bring you any any any better. So if you can realize that, then you can stop it there.

Chris Albert 00:20:58 (link to this point)

No. Man. Absolutely. I I agree with you a 100% because if you do continually go down that rabbit hole, you're just gonna end up in position to, you know, not go anywhere. You're just gonna be constantly going around circles in your own head.

Mike Ergo 00:21:20 (link to this point)

Yeah, it's a weird thing, but noticing that pattern, you know, I think when I was talking to someone, talking to a therapist, and I was telling her about how, you know, I put myself on these, when I was first starting to get back into working out, maybe a year or so after I got out the Marine Corps, I'd haze myself on these big death runs and then just slay my body and then, you know, telling myself, you're a piece of shit, you can do more, you can do better than this. And then it was this weird way and she said, okay, well, is that working out for you? What happens next? And I'd say, well, you know, I get frustrated and, okay, well, what happens after that? Well, I'd say in my head at some point, well, what's the point?

I'm not doing well anyways. And then maybe just go eat some bad food or, you know, go drink or do something that wasn't, you know, best for me. And so I was like, yeah, this really doesn't get me to where I want to be anyways. So it's counterproductive.

Chris Albert 00:22:25 (link to this point)

Yeah. I've I've been in those positions. I was yeah. I I still do those death runs sometimes. I'm just like, stupid son of bitch.

What are you doing? But but I I find that runs make me feel better. I I do. Yeah. We do find that they make me feel better.

And, you know, as long as they're they're kinda like a an addiction where you can you can do them too much and they can hurt you. But but at the same time, they're good, like, exit out of your head or, like, maybe even a venture into your head too. But, like but one that involves, like, moving your body, you know?

Mike Ergo 00:23:10 (link to this point)

Yeah. Well, it's interesting too, because on that topic, was just reading something that Chris Kresser was putting out is that the attitude you have, the mindset that you have during exercise can really affect the, or really change the effects it has on your body. So, you know, I just gave it a cursory glance, but that seems to make sense. You know, if you are believing something is working for you, you are believing that you can do good things in the world, then you're more likely to be able to actually do those things.

Chris Albert 00:23:47 (link to this point)

Yeah.

That's like setting an intention, right? Like you set an intention before you actually go into something and and, like, you set an intention for your workout. You set an intention for your meditation. You set an intention for for all that stuff.

Mike Ergo 00:24:03 (link to this point)

What's number three? Number three

Chris Albert 00:24:06 (link to this point)

is make friends with people who want the best for you. That's important. That's important because I don't know. I think a lot of times, no matter how awesome your friends are from home and and, you know, the the friends you grew up with, a lot of times you can run into people who don't want the best for you. And when I say don't want the best for you, it's not that they don't want you to have a good time.

It's not that they don't want you to have fun. It's that they don't want you to be in position to make them look bad. Or, you know?

Mike Ergo 00:24:44 (link to this point)

Yeah, exactly. Or if they're I can think of it constantly, about the drinking buddies I had. We had great times together. But it wasn't, it was more, I can see it now as someone else who was stuck, who found me, who was definitely stuck. And you know, we both wanted each other to stay at that stuck level, not addressing things we needed to, just getting, you know, drunk all the time.

And it wasn't wasn't helpful for either of us.

Chris Albert 00:25:20 (link to this point)

Right. Yeah. The same thing with my friends from home. There a lot of them are stuck. A lot of them are just there's a couple of them who who are very close to me who who are stuck in in in stuff that, you know, is a lot worse than when I was around, like like drug abuse and things like that.

But I remember growing up, like, I'd be like, yeah, I wanna join the Marine Corps. They'd be like, oh, why do you wanna do that? That's stupid. You wanna you know, why are you gonna go and have somebody yell at you the whole time? And it was like the first Marine Corps was the first thing that I did that was, like, my decision.

Right?

Mike Ergo 00:26:07 (link to this point)

Yeah.

Chris Albert 00:26:08 (link to this point)

It was, like, the first thing that I did that was, like, my decision where I said, this is what I want for my life. This is how I wanna be. And I remember catching it from everywhere. I my friends were like, you're you're you're just gonna go there. You're gonna get you're gonna yelled at.

You're gonna get break there. They were saying I was gonna get brainwashed all this shit. And then, like, nobody was happy for me.

Mike Ergo 00:26:33 (link to this point)

That's yeah. People usually don't know that they're it's it's it's fear. And it's it's fear and then it can be resentment because when someone does something really awesome or is gonna pursue something really difficult, I think even for a flash people will look at the things that they really want to do but maybe haven't had the courage to do yet And maybe some pissed off at himself and then project that onto you.

Chris Albert 00:27:06 (link to this point)

Right. Right. Yeah. It's just a it's it's a crazy thing that we do to each other. It's, you know, we're trying to pull each other back into the pot.

I I remember from the book, Jordan goes into like that that that story about the the Brit who's being taking a tour of of hell, and they they're looking at three cauldrons. And they said, this is where the this is where the the Americans are. They're they're they're what's it called? The the demons are are forking them back into the pot, and I'm gonna tell this bad this story in a really bad way. And then they they show, you know, the the the France, and it's a bigger pot, and this is where the the demons are forcing them back in the pot.

And then they were talking about the Soviets, and there was no demon around the pot forcing them back in. And the guy asked, well, why are there no demons over here forcing them back in? Said because the the Russians, they pull each other down.

Mike Ergo 00:28:14 (link to this point)

Yeah. Yeah. They take care of each other.

Chris Albert 00:28:16 (link to this point)

Yeah.

Mike Ergo 00:28:18 (link to this point)

That was funny.

Chris Albert 00:28:19 (link to this point)

Yeah. But but, yeah, I think that's really important. And no matter who I think the other part of it is this, a lot of us, we feel lonely. And because we feel lonely, we feel like we're privileged to hang out with people. Right?

We feel like we're privileged to hang out with people. So that leads a lot of us to get into the wrong kinds of relationships, right, particularly with women because we feel like we're privileged to be around women. We we feel like we're privileged to to to, you know, be dating this person or that person. And so that could lead us into a relationship where that person doesn't have our best interests in mind, And they're they're constantly bringing us down.

Mike Ergo 00:29:08 (link to this point)

Yeah, I could see that growing up, like, for a lot of reasons. And this happened probably until I made these big changes in my life in 2012 and started looking at patterns, because I usually end up falling into groups of people that were not really always up to no good, but not I always seemed to find those people who would get in trouble or fuck up. And he probably went back to number one of how I presented myself, but two, you know, what I believed about myself. And I'd surround myself just kind of falling to these groups that I'm to. And I could see that, okay, this is where I start to act like these other people and start to take on their traits just like we all do.

Chris Albert 00:30:03 (link to this point)

Yeah. I I see that too, and it's, you know, even, like, from boot camp. Right? Like, when you're in boot camp or or or or when you're, you know, when you're first coming out and you're you're going into a fleet and you it's like you have a choice when you're in the marine corps. You can you can hang out with people who are gonna do the work and be happy about, or you can go to the smoke the smoke pit. And and that's not to say that people who work hard aren't in the smoke pit, but that's the smoke pit is like where everybody goes to complain.

And you're sitting there and you're like, oh, man, fuck this blah blah blah. Like, we're gunnies gonna get pissed at this or like things like that. You know what I mean? Big green weenie, all that shit and and

Mike Ergo 00:30:51 (link to this point)

Everything sucks. This is bad. Why do we have to do this?

Chris Albert 00:30:55 (link to this point)

Right.

Mike Ergo 00:30:55 (link to this point)

Right.

Chris Albert 00:30:55 (link to this point)

Give me another Camel I'm freaking I wanna get another smoke in before we go back in. That kind of shit, you know. And and it's just it's like you have that opportunity everywhere in life though. Like you could either make the best out of your situation or you could complain about it. And this is a big thing that I talked about a few weeks ago.

No matter what job you're doing, if you're if you're working at McDonald's, if you're if you're out shoveling shit, if you're if you're doing doing, like, day labor work, it's not a bad job. It's an opportunity to to to to do something good. You know what I mean? And and it just matters how you frame it, and other people are gonna be a big part of framing that.

Mike Ergo 00:31:40 (link to this point)

Yeah. You can have the best job in the world and convince yourself that it sucks by talking about it like that. And, you know, the just the way our brains work, the more you do that, the the circuits are in synapses in our brain get stronger and stronger, And that's how we start looking at everything.

Chris Albert 00:31:57 (link to this point)

Mhmm. So number four, compare yourself to who you were yesterday, not to someone else, who someone else is today.

Mike Ergo 00:32:08 (link to this point)

It's a huge one, especially for vets. I think a lot of people I talk to, a lot of vets are looking at how maybe their civilian friends are more advanced in their careers or have already finished college when they just got out. And that puts them in that impossible and a very negative mindset of always having to catch up and that kind of feeling of desperation because they're not at that same level as someone else in a completely different circumstance.

Chris Albert 00:32:39 (link to this point)

Mhmm. Yeah. I remember when I I was getting out, all my friends because I came from the New York City area. All my friends had, like, really awesome jobs, and they were all working in the city. They were all, like, dating, you know, in in steady relationships with women and, like, you know, starting families and things like that.

And that was like, it was a rough period that led me to I was like, I'm just gonna party my ass off. And, yeah, it was it was it was a rough time, like mid twenties. Mid twenties was a rough time for me.

Mike Ergo 00:33:21 (link to this point)

It's interesting. It's really interesting because it translates everything to, even even during a race too. If if I'm, you know, racing, you know, endurance races, going through Ironman or a different triathlon, I'm constantly looking, you know people in a totally different category too that are just destroying the course, you know, they're at a level I'm not at yet or maybe ever, which is fine. If I start looking at that, my energy is going to get drained. I'm just going to think of all the things that are going wrong and then my body is going get that signal and I'm going to get slower or weaker.

And it's it's a completely it's a completely deflating attitude to have.

Chris Albert 00:34:12 (link to this point)

Right. Right. They like they pass you or something like that or you're looking at them and you're like, all of a sudden you lose the energy from your limbs. And, you know, you're like, I'm never gonna be as fast as that guy.

Mike Ergo 00:34:28 (link to this point)

And it just doesn't really help me with what I'm doing. It doesn't help me to be faster right there in that moment.

Chris Albert 00:34:34 (link to this point)

Right.

Mike Ergo 00:34:34 (link to this point)

So it's counterproductive even to winning.

Chris Albert 00:34:38 (link to this point)

Right. Yeah. That I imagine you have to have kinda like you have to have an ironclad, you know, self regulator in order to do that sport, man. Because yeah. I don't know. I I've thought about, like, I've done endurance races, just just Spartan races and things like that before. And I find that, you know, when I'm going through that and I'm I'm trying to like, if I were in it for, like, you know, just just and felt like people had eyes on me, I'd be like, I would get so demoralized.

I think you got such a strong mind for being able to do those sports.

Mike Ergo 00:35:18 (link to this point)

You know? Well, it's it's also I mean, the pressure off me. There's no pressure on me to win because Yeah. Winningers at such a a level above me. That definitely helps. But I feel that when I'm a little closer to being able to win something, then the pressure really gets into me.

Mike Ergo 00:35:44 (link to this point)

So

Chris Albert 00:35:45 (link to this point)

yeah, yeah.

Mike Ergo 00:35:46 (link to this point)

Just how comparing myself with who I was yesterday, it really helps me to see incremental progress or see if I'm stepping back in areas in which I can improve. Because if I'm comparing myself negatively, I mean, comparison is good. Don't get me wrong. If I see people doing something, I hope it will inspire me when people are doing something right. And I was like, oh, And so maybe that's a good comparison. I can look at what I'm doing, but I think what Jordan was talking about is this constant negative self talk we can give ourselves.

Chris Albert 00:36:24 (link to this point)

Right. Unworthiness.

Right. No. That's that's exactly it. Exactly it. I think and when you live in that world, it's like you said, you can reformulate your brain and and it could become a lot worse.

This one, number five, I wanted to ask you about because I don't have any children yet, but do not let your children do anything that makes you dislike them.

That's an interesting one.

I I I was listening to his commentary on it, and I found it found it like, it was some of the most interesting parts of the book. How do you feel about that as a father?

Mike Ergo 00:37:07 (link to this point)

It felt I wasn't sure how I felt about it if I could get on board with it at first until I heard him out. And I because my first impression when I heard that rule just being stated was just someone nagging at him, hey, don't do that, stop doing that. And said, I don't want to be that person. But then I thought of how even with friends or coworkers, how if people are doing something that really bothers me and I don't bring it up, I end up resenting them at a certain point. So if it's something that they can do better, but the better example, like he says, is kids and you know, he states that our primary function as a parent is to raise kids can be socially competent, who can have something to offer and get along in groups. And if we're not showing our kids that, hey, this will make you less desirable socially, this is something that can get in the way of you succeeding, then I think we're failing them. And so I do that with my kids in a way that they can hear that comes from a place of compassion. And where I don't just tell them what not to do. Say, hey, sometimes it's easy with my two year old because he's just at a level where I can say, hey, don't pull your sister's hair, she doesn't talk like that. You know, but when you get to an age where the girl is five, you can start to say things like, hey, if you say please for something, it makes people much more likely to want to give it to you.

And therefore, you'll probably be able to get more things that you want. If you say thank you, they'll remember you and they'll invite you back. And so she can take these things in. I can see her making the connections there. And I think the big thing is all how you present.

Chris Albert 00:39:22 (link to this point)

Right. I think that's a that's that's a big, big thing we got to think about as as far as everybody goes because I think a lot of parents, they they look at their children as if they're they're perfect and they're not. Right? And then the thing about being a parent, particularly in today's day and age, you're legally obligated to be a parent until the child is 18 years old. Right?

As long as you take up that responsibility, you're legally obligated to do it. So no matter what, you're you're in it. You've got to make sure that you are doing a good job so that you're not releasing, like, something that is gonna have a negative effect on society? Because that's essentially what could happen. Right?

Like

Mike Ergo 00:40:10 (link to this point)

Well, yeah, we all know the kids that that were told they're the best thing ever, and their parents always just praised everything they did. You know, we hate those kids. Those kids suck. You know, I saw them on baseball teams. I saw them, you know, in school and nobody wants to be around them.

So the kids misses out because they don't understand. Wait a second. I was told I was perfect. I was told everything I did was great. And everybody just starts ignoring them because it's not my job to fix them. Let's just find someone else to hang me out with.

Chris Albert 00:40:48 (link to this point)

Yeah. Yeah. I I was probably one of those little kids. I was a little annoying asshole. Yeah.

Because my mom I would my mom's a single Italian mama. Right? Single Italian mother. So, like, you know, like, Latin and Italian woman, they're like, you know, their sons are like the kings. Right?

And so my mom would be like, Christopher, you're the smartest boy in the world. And I would walk around like, I remember, like, my I have friends who've known me since, like, kindergarten, first grade. And they'd be like, dude, you were the most annoying little kid. Like, you would walk around telling people your IQ and, like, tell me what like that. I was such a such an idiot.

I was such a little idiot. But, yeah, don't do that. Because eventually, I got wedgied and destroyed and beaten up and all kinds of stuff. So don't allow your kid to go to school like that.

Mike Ergo 00:41:49 (link to this point)

Wait. It's it's really just a shirking of responsibility if you're doing that to your kid because it's harder to have the conversation of correction, show them how they can be better. It's easier just to let someone just go off and be mediocre or do things that bother people. So it really comes down to investing and and having the courage to have difficult conversations.

Chris Albert 00:42:11 (link to this point)

Mhmm. We talked about set your house in perfect order before you criticized the world. That was extremely important, I think. And and it's something that I think particularly young people need to pay attention to because a lot of times, what you'll see with kids, particularly in college, is that they'll shirk their own responsibility because they think that that they're here to to fix the world. Right?

So and, you know, they they won't think about their own responsibility in the world. They'll they'll they'll join their their social justice clubs or they'll focus more on these things, but they're not keeping their own little corner of the world tidy.

Mike Ergo 00:43:00 (link to this point)

Yeah, so it sends a mixed message, but then you realize, okay, a lot of this book, since he's a psychologist, talks about, I think, the different psychological defenses or ego defenses. So projection, you know, we're dissatisfied with things in the world, it could be that we're dissatisfied with the way we're interacting, the what we're doing in our own personal life. Maybe this is just a way of putting that off. So we don't have to deal with our own shit.

Chris Albert 00:43:33 (link to this point)

Right. Alright.

Pursue what is meaningful, not what is expedient. What'd you make of that one?

Mike Ergo 00:43:45 (link to this point)

That's a good one. It's What I made of that one is that easy to get caught up in things that sound like they're just easier to do and or take opportunities that maybe don't align with my values. I can think of one idea as I took a, I became an affiliate, somewhat of a sponsorship from supplement company.

It And was exciting because I never gotten this sponsorship like this before. I could see, okay, some of the products are pretty cool. And what I like, what I can agree with.

A lot of them weren't, you know, I had a lot of it, you know, the pre workout stuff that's just kind of like a math essentially. And a lot of the stuff that didn't really align with who I was and the message I was putting out. And, but it was, you know, like it was expedient. It was right there. I could get it out and I said, maybe I can use this to do something good.

But it didn't, I just, I noticed this along with other times I've done this, I ended up starting to resent myself. I started just being disappointed with myself. And so in the end, didn't, it set me back more I think than it really helped me go forward. I think that's with anything. If we do just what's easy to do, take what's here right here in front of us all the time, then you're actually setting yourself back for what you really want to do when you end up not really liking yourself as much. Right?

Chris Albert 00:45:35 (link to this point)

No, I can definitely see that. That's a that's that that happens not just in the in these types of situations, but like, I think a lot of times with relationships when you get yourself into casual relationships that that are convenient, a lot of times those casual relationships can lead to higher commitments, like, you know, somebody gets pregnant in the relationship or something like that. And then you end up spending, you know, eighteen and twenty years with somebody who like you didn't have a good connection with from the beginning. I think a lot of times, people get themselves wrapped up into those types of situations by accident, you know, because they they they were taking they were pursuing an expedient relationship at first.

Mike Ergo 00:46:26 (link to this point)

Yeah. Exactly. It's I think this one was a little easier to to get into. He need to explain it quite as much, which was cool.

Chris Albert 00:46:41 (link to this point)

Yeah. Tell the truth or at least don't lie. That was pretty straightforward too, I think. But, you know, his opinion is that lying leads to hell. Like, lying we we could create hell on earth, and we can create it by lying.

Mike Ergo 00:47:03 (link to this point)

Yeah. Usually, the example of of people who are homeless people, not just, I mean, because they're homeless, but people you could see who were just deeply disturbed addicts, addicted to something, or people who were just so warped and how they how they were aligning to themselves that you could see it on their face and they're building their own personal health because of it.

Chris Albert 00:47:30 (link to this point)

Right. And there's that aspect of it and then the societal aspect of it too because I was reading in conjunction with this. I was I was actually reading Alexander Solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago.

Mike Ergo 00:47:44 (link to this point)

Yes.

Chris Albert 00:47:45 (link to this point)

And kids is all about that book is all about how lies led to the gulag. Like, just societal level lies. Like, nobody was telling the truth. Nothing was the the whole society was based on a lie.

Mike Ergo 00:48:05 (link to this point)

Yeah, exactly. And then if you can't tell the truth, then there's no basis for trust. Right. And then when there's no basis for trust, it's hard to know if your senses are giving you accurate data. And so everything is in question.

And so Right. Makes sense, and it it leads to fear, which, you know, in the extreme examples leads to persecution of other people. And you write gulag.

Chris Albert 00:48:34 (link to this point)

Right. Persecution to uphold the lie. It was a it's such a big theme there. And it's like, you know, and that's that's what, you know, I think part of what part of the reason that that Jordan Peterson's doing this is because he believes that our own actions can contribute to suffering here on this earth. Right?

So, like, if you lead a good and honorable life, it'll decrease decrease, you know, societal level suffering. And the more you can the more you can avoid lying, the more you'll avoid that type of suffering. Right? Or you'll avoid increasing that type of suffering here on Earth.

Mike Ergo 00:49:13 (link to this point)

Yeah. Well, that's the thing, you know, if I'm telling the truth, being honest with people, then it gives them the opportunity to know that, oh, they can tell the truth around me. And maybe just had exponential effect. Huge either way we go on this.

Chris Albert 00:49:34 (link to this point)

Number nine, assume that the person you were listening to might know something that you don't.

Mike Ergo 00:49:42 (link to this point)

Yeah.

Chris Albert 00:49:43 (link to this point)

That's a big one.

Mike Ergo 00:49:44 (link to this point)

Yeah. It comes back to arrogance or being humble.

Chris Albert 00:49:47 (link to this point)

Right? Exactly. Exactly. And definitely understanding that that, you know, other people out there know might know a lot more about something than you do. And don't just go blabbering off of your mouth off in the mouth to before you had a chance to to really listen.

Mike Ergo 00:50:08 (link to this point)

Yeah, this always happens, you know, when I was growing up, teenage years, you know, like, oh, my parents didn't know anything. And, you know, you learn later on that some of the things that, you know, that they were doing and telling us really actually worked. We would have saved ourselves a lot of suffering had we listened a little more. That's kind of a stage of life thing. I like this one because it helps me approach something with beginner's mind and it helps me approach something with just the idea that, well, I might have something to learn, which is always exciting.

Because if I just think, now they're an idiot, don't have to figure it out, then that really narrows my possibilities of what I could accomplish.

Chris Albert 00:51:00 (link to this point)

Yes. Number 10 is be precise in your speech.

Mike Ergo 00:51:07 (link to this point)

I'm tough. This one's tough for me.

Chris Albert 00:51:12 (link to this point)

Why? Why so?

Mike Ergo 00:51:15 (link to this point)

I don't know if it's I see this more when I'm trying to explain something that's difficult, But it's also, I think it's difficult in this day, I think especially with social media because you hear people talk describe things, oh, that's the best thing ever or this thing is amazing hyperbole or maybe exaggerate and really degrades exactly what the message is. Maybe maybe that thing we're reviewing isn't amazing. Maybe it's just okay.

Chris Albert 00:51:57 (link to this point)

Right. Alright. This I think this one goes into, like, leaving loopholes open for people. Right? Leaving loopholes open for people to lie or not describe the truth in a proper way.

Because if if you don't speak in precise speech, a lot of times it can it can lead you to to really, like, not get to what you want.

Right?

To not get to what you want and not get what what what's exactly needed.

Mike Ergo 00:52:35 (link to this point)

Yeah. Clear communication. I it was pretty this one was pretty self explanatory to me.

Chris Albert 00:52:42 (link to this point)

Yeah.

Mike Ergo 00:52:43 (link to this point)

And it helped me realize where I can improve.

Chris Albert 00:52:47 (link to this point)

Mhmm. Number 11, do not bother children when they are skateboarding.

Mike Ergo 00:52:57 (link to this point)

Would you make it this one?

Chris Albert 00:52:59 (link to this point)

I thought I like this one because I think that, you know, in a lot of ways, we gotta let kids be kids. We gotta let kids go out there. We gotta let them them fall down. We gotta let them, you know, take chances, take risks. We gotta let them, in a lot of ways, build their own hierarchies.

Right? Because if they if they're they're not able to do that, they're they're not getting an experience that's gonna allow them to grow, mature, and develop the way they should. Right? But I think what he's getting at here is a lot of that free play that we had as kids is is is going away, and that children's chances of taking risks for their for themselves and being who they in in in creating their own challenges or they're going away because we're we're protecting them too much.

Mike Ergo 00:54:06 (link to this point)

Yeah, they don't have a chance to experience failure or experience, you know, something that doesn't work out. But you're right, taking those risks. I also saw this one too is allowing people to find their own place in the world. And every generation has their thing the parenting oh, this is the first thing ever. And we need to allow people to find their way instead of just prescribing exactly what they should be doing, which I guess is exactly what you're saying too or very similar.

Chris Albert 00:54:50 (link to this point)

Yeah. I I think if you have everything prescribed for you and you're not taking those risks, it's it's takes a lot of zest out of life. Right? Like, you're not you're not getting what you need. I think we all need that risk.

Otherwise, you're gonna go crazy at some point. Right?

Mike Ergo 00:55:08 (link to this point)

Yeah. And speaking of going crazy, I can I can hear my two kids about to come downstairs at the second here?

Chris Albert 00:55:15 (link to this point)

Let's get to this last one then. Number 12. Pet a cat when you encounter one on a street. What's that? This one was

Mike Ergo 00:55:25 (link to this point)

probably the most odd.

Chris Albert 00:55:27 (link to this point)

Yeah. Mall.

Mike Ergo 00:55:28 (link to this point)

What who who would miss?

Chris Albert 00:55:32 (link to this point)

I so when I was listening to it, he he he went through this whole thing about why he was explaining cats rather than dogs and things like that. But I think it means that you need to take the opportunity to appreciate the the the friendliness and the the people and and the things that you encounter in life when you when you encounter them.

Mike Ergo 00:56:00 (link to this point)

Yeah. Being present with a moment, looking at exactly what's there. Yeah. Stop and have that conversation with someone.

Chris Albert 00:56:08 (link to this point)

Right. Exactly. Like, stop it for a moment being like, hey. What's going on? You know?

Let's let's talk for a minute. Let's be genuinely interested in each other for a second and then, you know, go about our day.

Mike Ergo 00:56:21 (link to this point)

It's interesting how many of these conversations because I've taken a lot of time to do that over the last five years. Usually those ones where I'm meeting or talking with something in a random place have led to a lot bigger things. Like for example, I was running on a treadmill and so I'm practicing to carry a flag for this next Ironman again. Person And next to me, I don't know how, but said, Wait, are you that flag carrying guy? I said, Yeah, I mean, I don't get recognized a lot for this, believe me.

But she said, Oh, okay. Yeah, no, I've seen you. I was at the same race and we got to talk and it turns out we had a lot in common. And, you know, talking about fundraising ideas, talking about big events that we're probably going do together. But had I just kind of blown this conversation off, you know, lot of these conversations that I've had in airports or just waiting, you know, for a shuttle to a hotel, and that being pretty big.

So there's there's a lot of opportunity in as well.

Chris Albert 00:57:34 (link to this point)

Wow. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And and, you know, that's that's how things happen.

Right? You you you meet people who aren't really in your circle, and you get to know them a little bit, and and that could lead to new things. Right? I always say that people need people. Right?

Mike Ergo 00:57:55 (link to this point)

It's our reward, man.

Chris Albert 00:57:56 (link to this point)

Yep. Exactly. Well, you've got your your your tribe waking up over there. I can hear them going. So

Mike Ergo 00:58:05 (link to this point)

Tell them to not do anything that makes me dislike them.

Chris Albert 00:58:08 (link to this point)

Exactly.

Exactly. I wanna go find a cat to pet. On. Keeping my dog in the process. Dude, so this is our our I think this is our fourth one together.

Right? Number four.

Awesome. Awesome. Well, I hope everybody's enjoying these and that you're checking out both the Warrior Soul podcast and Transitions from War. Make sure you put those both on your list. Mike and I have been going back and forth each week.

I'll be on his show one week. He'll be on on on my show one week. And it's it's it's a new experiment we're working out. We're trying to turn it into something a little bit bigger, and and we're trying to come up with a name for the whole thing. So we somebody said suggested one, but then we had flashbacks to two girls, one cup.

And we're yeah. Long story. And so if you got a name names. Yeah. We're trying to come up with some names.

Mike Ergo 00:59:16 (link to this point)

So Alright, man. Always a pleasure talking with you.

Chris Albert 00:59:21 (link to this point)

Alright, guys. Take care, Mike. Enjoy your morning. And then everybody out there, get out there and live your best lives while you can.